rlhamil
Apr 21, 06:44 PM
The existence of this data has been known for some time now.
Further, some googling suggests that Apple had already responded to some congressmen's inquiries on the subject, again, well before it got this level of publicity.
From what I've read, they apparently collect locations, WiFi MAC addresses, etc, _anonymously_ (not retaining information that would track any particular person or phone, unless you _choose_ to track a lost or stolen iPhone).
Now...why would they do that? I just thought of one reason.
Geolocation by WiFi MAC address (the only way iPod touch or non-3G iPad can geolocate, if they can't use cell towers and don't include GPS) depends on a database of locations and WiFi MAC addresses. Apple probably has previously used one licensed from Skyhook or Google. I imagine that was built with equipment carried in delivery vans, or in the same vehicles that take Google's "street view" panoramic photos. Licensing access to that database must cost Apple something.
Now...what happens? Somebody says "duh, an iPhone has WiFi and a GPS, that means we've got a fleet of surveying equipment already deployed." Doesn't matter that they can't schedule the coverage; sooner or later, someone is likely to drive near just about every fixed WiFi AP on the planet with an iPhone. Now...the data quality wouldn't be as good...but even whoever did the earlier database must've had that problem (people with mobile access points would confuse the heck out of things, for instance). So maybe it takes multiple hits to confirm something as fixed, or to improve the accuracy. But eventually you still get to the same end result - a WiFi MAC address vs location database that Apple owns free and clear.
They might even be able to do some work with cell tower location data, and perhaps produce data good enough to compete with the existing geolocation database providers. After all, Apple does have to maintain some infrastructure for various functions: their notification servers, software update servers, etc. Anything they can get as a side-effect of the normal operation of iDevices and their infrastructure, that helps pay for it, lets them make a bigger profit and/or be more competitive (remember, for all Apple's rep for high prices, the iPad 2 supposedly is as well or better priced compared to competing devices with similar specs).
The question here probably isn't whether the data is being abused; and raising that question is IMO _pandering_, not surprising for a liberal, who after all must have idiots for constituents, or they wouldn't have been elected. (I mean, really, Heinlein summarized economics concisely with TANSTAAFL, and there _is_ something usually ignored called the Tenth Amendment, which basically says the states can be socialist if they want, but the federal government can't.)
The _real_ question is what safeguards are in effect to minimize the potential for abuse. Ok, we theoretically need a warrant for this sort of thing (although I wouldn't put it past individual states to play fast and loose). But what about foreign governments, already inclined towards police state behavior? What about people _knowing_ what risk they're putting themselves at in case of some civil suit?
IMO, Apple needs to provide and prominently _document_ a way to clear the saved data, and/or document the degree to which disabling location services prevents its retention (let alone anonymous reporting) in the first place. (For jailbreakers, I gather there's already a Cydia app that once installed, will automatically delete data older than a few minutes.) People need to understand that encrypted backups would make the information sync'd back to their Mac or PC safer. And so on.
Generating hysteria is perhaps a useful political tool, for those inclined to address themselves to the least common denominator. But asking the more specific questions which would lead to real answers takes more than PR, it takes a functional brain, or at least the sense to hire a staffer who has one or can consult one.
Further, some googling suggests that Apple had already responded to some congressmen's inquiries on the subject, again, well before it got this level of publicity.
From what I've read, they apparently collect locations, WiFi MAC addresses, etc, _anonymously_ (not retaining information that would track any particular person or phone, unless you _choose_ to track a lost or stolen iPhone).
Now...why would they do that? I just thought of one reason.
Geolocation by WiFi MAC address (the only way iPod touch or non-3G iPad can geolocate, if they can't use cell towers and don't include GPS) depends on a database of locations and WiFi MAC addresses. Apple probably has previously used one licensed from Skyhook or Google. I imagine that was built with equipment carried in delivery vans, or in the same vehicles that take Google's "street view" panoramic photos. Licensing access to that database must cost Apple something.
Now...what happens? Somebody says "duh, an iPhone has WiFi and a GPS, that means we've got a fleet of surveying equipment already deployed." Doesn't matter that they can't schedule the coverage; sooner or later, someone is likely to drive near just about every fixed WiFi AP on the planet with an iPhone. Now...the data quality wouldn't be as good...but even whoever did the earlier database must've had that problem (people with mobile access points would confuse the heck out of things, for instance). So maybe it takes multiple hits to confirm something as fixed, or to improve the accuracy. But eventually you still get to the same end result - a WiFi MAC address vs location database that Apple owns free and clear.
They might even be able to do some work with cell tower location data, and perhaps produce data good enough to compete with the existing geolocation database providers. After all, Apple does have to maintain some infrastructure for various functions: their notification servers, software update servers, etc. Anything they can get as a side-effect of the normal operation of iDevices and their infrastructure, that helps pay for it, lets them make a bigger profit and/or be more competitive (remember, for all Apple's rep for high prices, the iPad 2 supposedly is as well or better priced compared to competing devices with similar specs).
The question here probably isn't whether the data is being abused; and raising that question is IMO _pandering_, not surprising for a liberal, who after all must have idiots for constituents, or they wouldn't have been elected. (I mean, really, Heinlein summarized economics concisely with TANSTAAFL, and there _is_ something usually ignored called the Tenth Amendment, which basically says the states can be socialist if they want, but the federal government can't.)
The _real_ question is what safeguards are in effect to minimize the potential for abuse. Ok, we theoretically need a warrant for this sort of thing (although I wouldn't put it past individual states to play fast and loose). But what about foreign governments, already inclined towards police state behavior? What about people _knowing_ what risk they're putting themselves at in case of some civil suit?
IMO, Apple needs to provide and prominently _document_ a way to clear the saved data, and/or document the degree to which disabling location services prevents its retention (let alone anonymous reporting) in the first place. (For jailbreakers, I gather there's already a Cydia app that once installed, will automatically delete data older than a few minutes.) People need to understand that encrypted backups would make the information sync'd back to their Mac or PC safer. And so on.
Generating hysteria is perhaps a useful political tool, for those inclined to address themselves to the least common denominator. But asking the more specific questions which would lead to real answers takes more than PR, it takes a functional brain, or at least the sense to hire a staffer who has one or can consult one.
haravikk
Jun 22, 02:49 PM
While it'd be kind of cool to have a touch-enabled iMac screen, the only people who will really benefit from this are museums that like to use iMacs as all-in-one systems for an interactive, but then they tend to just buy add-on touch sensors or those rollerball things instead.
pkson
May 3, 04:07 AM
It seems like any time there's even a slight implication of any software being tuned to be easier to use, there's a barrage of negative comments lamenting how it's been "watered down."
What's with all this baseless elitism?
(Over uninstalling an app! Such a trite matter)
I see lots of people saying they'll stick with their version, or that it's the end of whatever paradigm they had before... why? Because it's what... "harder to use?" Who is that going to impress?
Not just for Lion, but this is exactly what happened with FCPX.
Which direction would the evolution of software go? Harder? Of course not...
I really wonder what the reasoning behind all this negativity is...
What's with all this baseless elitism?
(Over uninstalling an app! Such a trite matter)
I see lots of people saying they'll stick with their version, or that it's the end of whatever paradigm they had before... why? Because it's what... "harder to use?" Who is that going to impress?
Not just for Lion, but this is exactly what happened with FCPX.
Which direction would the evolution of software go? Harder? Of course not...
I really wonder what the reasoning behind all this negativity is...
WildGuess
Apr 2, 09:16 PM
This edition will be forever known as the light bleed model. Mine has it, only slightly annoying. But it certainly knocks down the resale value, almost forcing me to consider exchanging it. Also slightly annoying.
trex67
Mar 23, 10:08 AM
Do people seriously have that many songs?!!! seriously?!!!
220gb = 50,000 songs?!!!!! That is totally not necessary.
Apple discontinue that dinosaur! It makes you look bad to just have it on your website.
I currently have 34,000+ songs in my iTunes Library, just north of 205GB. I'd buy a 220GB in a heartbeat. I realize not everyone needs that much space, but I currently have to swap out older material (usually live albums and alternate versions) whenever I get a new album (I tend to buy or rip a couple of new albums a week.) And I do indeed listen to everything on my iPod at least occasionally. New albums get a solid two or three day rotation, but most of the time I have it on shuffle. I don't consider this a problem, I just really love music, and variety is important to me.
220gb = 50,000 songs?!!!!! That is totally not necessary.
Apple discontinue that dinosaur! It makes you look bad to just have it on your website.
I currently have 34,000+ songs in my iTunes Library, just north of 205GB. I'd buy a 220GB in a heartbeat. I realize not everyone needs that much space, but I currently have to swap out older material (usually live albums and alternate versions) whenever I get a new album (I tend to buy or rip a couple of new albums a week.) And I do indeed listen to everything on my iPod at least occasionally. New albums get a solid two or three day rotation, but most of the time I have it on shuffle. I don't consider this a problem, I just really love music, and variety is important to me.
MikhailT
Apr 10, 10:35 AM
I don't understand why everyone seems to dislike the "new" iCal so much. Clearly, it was adopted by iPad iOS at first and now by Mac OS X Lion. Nothing new here. Nothing unexpected.
I don't remember people disliking/complaining about the iCal look on iPad at all. I tell ya, people complain just for the sake of complaining. What a crowd. :rolleyes:It doesn't look exactly the same on the iPad and an interface tuned to iOS shouldn't be used in the same away on the desktop. You can be creative with the interface controls and so on but this is too far. The colors are too distracting and much *brighter* than the one used on the iPad.
The problem that I have is that Apple seems to breaking away from their Human Interface Guidelines that every developers on the Macs platform follows. The sooner they do this, the more likely the third party apps are going to not follow it either. If every apps looks completely different, then it's going to be harder to get used to how things work on the Mac platform. Consistency is the number 1 thing that Mac OS X does successfully and if we break away from it, it's going to look ugly overnight.
I don't think people are complaining for the sake of complaining, in this case, they have a valid reason to. Not only is it look completely different, it can be distracting when you're used to all metal theme on OS X and you can't choose to disable this interface.
IMO, it's distracting, ugly and I want an option to turn this off. Otherwise, I'd just wait for a third-party app with a better interface and/or hacks to enable the *Aqua* theme.
I don't remember people disliking/complaining about the iCal look on iPad at all. I tell ya, people complain just for the sake of complaining. What a crowd. :rolleyes:It doesn't look exactly the same on the iPad and an interface tuned to iOS shouldn't be used in the same away on the desktop. You can be creative with the interface controls and so on but this is too far. The colors are too distracting and much *brighter* than the one used on the iPad.
The problem that I have is that Apple seems to breaking away from their Human Interface Guidelines that every developers on the Macs platform follows. The sooner they do this, the more likely the third party apps are going to not follow it either. If every apps looks completely different, then it's going to be harder to get used to how things work on the Mac platform. Consistency is the number 1 thing that Mac OS X does successfully and if we break away from it, it's going to look ugly overnight.
I don't think people are complaining for the sake of complaining, in this case, they have a valid reason to. Not only is it look completely different, it can be distracting when you're used to all metal theme on OS X and you can't choose to disable this interface.
IMO, it's distracting, ugly and I want an option to turn this off. Otherwise, I'd just wait for a third-party app with a better interface and/or hacks to enable the *Aqua* theme.
1984
Aug 29, 10:35 AM
Since they are pin compatible why not use a Core Duo in the entry-level model to get the price down to $499 and use Core 2 Duo in the remaining models? Let's keep in mind this is being reported by ThinkSecret which is about as reliable as MacOSRumors or O'Grady's PowerPage these days. When Appleinsider reports on it I'll start to worry.
Eraserhead
Mar 20, 03:57 PM
No-one could possibly be offended by homeopathy.
iBookG4user
Sep 6, 08:09 PM
Dude, the MBP was updated in late April of this year, why would you think it'll be updated four and a half months later??
A very slight upgrade to the processor hardly says anything about when an update will come to the MBP. But I certainly hope it comes before October.
A very slight upgrade to the processor hardly says anything about when an update will come to the MBP. But I certainly hope it comes before October.
interestedabit
Apr 19, 11:18 AM
Yay, I'm hoping for a redesign..
not needed..
not needed..
Bonfire
Apr 3, 03:16 AM
Mine did too. Returned it to Apple, got a new one in 10 days. No bleeding.:D
As does mine. Great device otherwise, but unfortunately it will be going back to the Apple store on monday.
As does mine. Great device otherwise, but unfortunately it will be going back to the Apple store on monday.
m4rc
Apr 16, 05:05 AM
Firstly, can't believe this is still ongoing!
This is an interesting point of view (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=8320) on the whole topic.
I always compare Apple to BMW. Maybe we should all start a petition for BMW as surely it too is dieing? After all, I can buy a ford for �6000, but not a BMW - I mean, what's going on there, they don't want to make crap cars or what?
Marc
This is an interesting point of view (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=8320) on the whole topic.
I always compare Apple to BMW. Maybe we should all start a petition for BMW as surely it too is dieing? After all, I can buy a ford for �6000, but not a BMW - I mean, what's going on there, they don't want to make crap cars or what?
Marc
Doraemon
Mar 28, 09:56 AM
Its killing them
Geez. How many more people do you need to see that you're wrong. :rolleyes:
Geez. How many more people do you need to see that you're wrong. :rolleyes:
encro
Apr 27, 11:41 AM
I can't be the only one that is sick to death with regards to car analogies. Grrr
kokako
Apr 26, 01:27 PM
This annoys me, no way in hell should another plagerist company be allowed to ride apples high, why should they, c'mon mac users get behind apple on this one.
On mac computers we've always had "Applications", windows have had "programs", when apple made the iPhone they put mini applications on it and called them Apps which is short for small Applications, so amazon call yours PROGS and call it a Progstore but don't STEAL man !remember the widgets on your macs they are where the idea for the Apps on Iphones came from, Windows came along and stole the Widgets idea and initially called them Gadgets but now every other copycat calls them Widgets too, the same is happening again man it's bull, apple sue these leeches all of them.
On mac computers we've always had "Applications", windows have had "programs", when apple made the iPhone they put mini applications on it and called them Apps which is short for small Applications, so amazon call yours PROGS and call it a Progstore but don't STEAL man !remember the widgets on your macs they are where the idea for the Apps on Iphones came from, Windows came along and stole the Widgets idea and initially called them Gadgets but now every other copycat calls them Widgets too, the same is happening again man it's bull, apple sue these leeches all of them.
SMM
Nov 15, 06:40 PM
Just asking a question, understand. But, is there a need to have more memory as twice as many requesting sources are accessing the memory pool?
chrismacguy
Feb 28, 07:15 AM
15! *internet props*, at one point i had a blue and white g3, a ruby imac g3, and a few others...unfortunatly my mom was tired of all the "useless" (in her eyes) computers and made me discard them (the only computers i have every gotten rid of that werent compleatly dead)
now all im starting again, with this mdd g4 :D
haha - luckilly my family dont control my eBay account, and if they complain I find a way of hiding a few more of them in a cupboard (I actually ended up moving a shelf at one point so I could fit a iMac G3 in it) - although it is reaching the point where both my room and my dorm room are nearly full of old (and new) Macs... xD (All of them bar 1 boot, and the 1 that doesnt is only because its HD is on the way out - with a goodun it boots just fine).
now all im starting again, with this mdd g4 :D
haha - luckilly my family dont control my eBay account, and if they complain I find a way of hiding a few more of them in a cupboard (I actually ended up moving a shelf at one point so I could fit a iMac G3 in it) - although it is reaching the point where both my room and my dorm room are nearly full of old (and new) Macs... xD (All of them bar 1 boot, and the 1 that doesnt is only because its HD is on the way out - with a goodun it boots just fine).
Rocketman
Nov 30, 10:14 AM
I was not aware of that, but breaking the agreement with Apple records not to get into the music distribution business has worked out for them I think.
It's funny, the first hifi company I thought of for an Apple HT product was Mcintosh, the complete opposite design asthetic. If I could choose I would prefer someone a little further down the price scale. Rotel would be a nice match, very good performance for the money, for speakers Paradigm comes to mind.
The text of that agreement was posted in a lawsuit thread. Apple Computer is precluded from "producing" music not distributing it. The recent claim by Apple Records was bogus and properly denied.
So does anyone know the current business status of Mc Intosh?
McIntoshAudio.com link (http://www.mcintoshaudio.com)
Rocketman
It's funny, the first hifi company I thought of for an Apple HT product was Mcintosh, the complete opposite design asthetic. If I could choose I would prefer someone a little further down the price scale. Rotel would be a nice match, very good performance for the money, for speakers Paradigm comes to mind.
The text of that agreement was posted in a lawsuit thread. Apple Computer is precluded from "producing" music not distributing it. The recent claim by Apple Records was bogus and properly denied.
So does anyone know the current business status of Mc Intosh?
McIntoshAudio.com link (http://www.mcintoshaudio.com)
Rocketman
SciTeach
Nov 15, 08:26 AM
How long before it ends up in the MacBook Pro?
(joking)
The heck with the MacBook Pro.....how about the Mac MINI!!!
:p ;) :D
(joking)
The heck with the MacBook Pro.....how about the Mac MINI!!!
:p ;) :D
calcvita
May 3, 03:46 AM
apple needs to do something about this whole uninstallation process. apps like appcleaner exist and they do exist for a very good reason. if i uninstall an app, i want it to completely be gone.
and what if you have a corrupted .plist file which causes the application to misbehave? by simply drag & drop the app into the trashcan leaves its associated files untouched and re-installing the app won't fix the problem.
on many troubleshooting guides a very common suggestion is to remove the preference file, located in the user (in most cases) library folder, but in lion this folder is hidden and if you ask me, this will confuse newbies even more. i'm sure there will be comments like "but i don't have a library folder" and so on.
and what if you have a corrupted .plist file which causes the application to misbehave? by simply drag & drop the app into the trashcan leaves its associated files untouched and re-installing the app won't fix the problem.
on many troubleshooting guides a very common suggestion is to remove the preference file, located in the user (in most cases) library folder, but in lion this folder is hidden and if you ask me, this will confuse newbies even more. i'm sure there will be comments like "but i don't have a library folder" and so on.
Abyssgh0st
Jan 30, 10:00 AM
Best handling car i have ever driven.... have a 5 month old little boy though so i think its days are numbered in favour of a truck!
More pictures please! I lust after Lotus.
More pictures please! I lust after Lotus.
NebulaClash
Sep 14, 12:02 PM
I think you are a minority of one on this interpretation. Apple is saying you now won't get the case unless you are exhibiting the problem. Toyota's recall applies to ALL cars in the affected series, and they will repair/replace the questionable part whether you are exhibiting problems or not. Moreover, Toyota's sends a recall notice to all the impacted owners; with the new Apple policy, you have to read the news or contact Apple to learn of the program.
Toyota fixes all vehicles because they all have the potential to have dangerous problems.
Most iPhone owners have no problem whatsoever, and there's no danger at all to anyone.
So Toyota HAS to fix them all. It would be pointless for Apple to fix all iPhones in the field when most of them never have an issue needing a fix. But if you do have a problem, let them know and they will fix it for you for free. That's hardly a burden for such a non-dangerous situation.
We live in this ridiculous era of expectations. Apple comes out with a reasonable solution to a problem that affects a tiny percentage of users, and they get slammed for it. Hypocrisy.
Toyota fixes all vehicles because they all have the potential to have dangerous problems.
Most iPhone owners have no problem whatsoever, and there's no danger at all to anyone.
So Toyota HAS to fix them all. It would be pointless for Apple to fix all iPhones in the field when most of them never have an issue needing a fix. But if you do have a problem, let them know and they will fix it for you for free. That's hardly a burden for such a non-dangerous situation.
We live in this ridiculous era of expectations. Apple comes out with a reasonable solution to a problem that affects a tiny percentage of users, and they get slammed for it. Hypocrisy.
Benjamins
Mar 23, 12:48 AM
Do people seriously have that many songs?!!! seriously?!!!
220gb = 50,000 songs?!!!!! That is totally not necessary.
Apple discontinue that dinosaur! It makes you look bad to just have it on your website.
I think the iPod classic looks beautiful.
220gb = 50,000 songs?!!!!! That is totally not necessary.
Apple discontinue that dinosaur! It makes you look bad to just have it on your website.
I think the iPod classic looks beautiful.
Fraaaa
Apr 2, 07:15 PM
You sure? The DP2 installer is 3.7GB vs. 3.35GB of DP1.
Leopard requires 9GB, Snow Leopard requires 5GB, and now Lion is under 4GB?
Leopard requires 9GB, Snow Leopard requires 5GB, and now Lion is under 4GB?